Super 8 vs. Regular 8

[dr.sanchez]

I just downloaded a regular 8 movie from http://8mm.filmshooting.com/ (filename = standard8k25example.mpg on their ftp site) and was amazed at the quality of regular 8. From what I saw, it was as good as most k40 super 8 (granted, k25 is slower) I've seen. It seems to me that the only disadvantage to using R8 over S8 is having to load the film manually, as opposed to popping in a cartridge. R8 is available in about as many stocks, the cameras are built like tanks and weigh almost as much, and there are no pressure plate problems with the in-camera metal plates found in R8 cameras. Also, since R8 is 16mm film with extra sprocket holes, it seems the potential for more film stocks (incl. negative) is there.

So, my question: why is small-format filming predominately super 8? I know some of us shoot both S8 and R8 but most discussion on these boards indicate that super 8 is king? Is it just the easy cartridge thing and 25% more filmable area?

[Colorburst300]

Basically...

Think of it this way then -
If Reg 8 is comparable to super 8 in terms of picture quality, and it does have 25% more area to be shown, then why wouldn't you use super 8? If I am speaking correctly, I'm pretty sure the super film is cheaper, and yes it is easier to load the film. The super 8 film technique is predominantly larger than that of regular 8mm.

Also, don't forget, this is a "Super 8" forum, so as to gear mostly everything discussed about super 8 topics.

There are 8mm cameras out there, film and processing available. The choice is up to you.

Mike

[rollemfilm]

super 8 cameras are for the most part more advaced too. very few regular 8 cameras can do sync sound. the bolex h8 is one off hand that i can think of. and with the bolex, you need to buy an external sync notor. no doubt, the bolex will give you great results, but it is one of the few regular 8 cameras with features that rival super 8. maybe someone else can list some others.

[dr.sanchez]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Colorburst300:
Basically...

Think of it this way then -
If Reg 8 is comparable to super 8 in terms of picture quality, and it does have 25% more area to be shown, then why wouldn't you use super 8? If I am speaking correctly, I'm pretty sure the super film is cheaper, and yes it is easier to load the film. The super 8 film technique is predominantly larger than that of regular 8mm.

Also, don't forget, this is a "Super 8" forum, so as to gear mostly everything discussed about super 8 topics.

There are 8mm cameras out there, film and processing available. The choice is up to you.

Mike</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the description of the forum is "We are an intelligent, mature community and resource for sharing information about small-gauge filmmaking, particularly Super-8 and other 8mm film formats." (no insulting tone intended)

I'm just saying that by including regular 8 in one's arsenal of film, you have access to many well-made cameras, potential access to as many film stocks as are available in 16 mm (maybe kodak just needs little push), and you never have to deal with cartridge jitter (which is still out there). All for the price of loading your own film and slightly smaller film size. And if you're digitizing it to edit on video, I'll bet most can't tell the difference.

[dr.sanchez]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by rollemfilm:
super 8 cameras are for the most part more advaced too.

not the ones I buy.

very few regular 8 cameras can do sync sound.

very few super 8 cameras can, either. without the external sync motor.

the bolex h8 is one off hand that i can think of. and with the bolex, you need to buy an external sync notor. no doubt, the bolex will give you great results, but it is one of the few regular 8 cameras with features that rival super 8. maybe someone else can list some others.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

of all the digitized films I saw on the 8mm.filmshooting.com ftp site, the regular 8 film was the best. I know there are other circumstances like cameraman's skill, but seeing what can come out of a 20-pound steel camera from the 50's got me thinking, that's all. Anyone else out there shoot regular 8? If so, why?

[tfunch24]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by dr.sanchez:

Anyone else out there shoot regular 8? If so, why?</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I shoot R8 on a limited basis--I picked up a nice Keystone camera with three lenses--regular, telephoto, and wide-angle, and I want to get some use out of it. Generally, I do like the look of well-exposed K25, but the 15 fps of the camera makes everything look like an old home movie.

I still have a roll of Cinechrome 25 left. I haven't tried any of the other color stocks or the black-and-white R8 stocks.

K25 intercut with K40 S8 looks interesting, to say the least (sorry, I don't have a sample to upload.)

Tom

[Actor]

Kodak has discontinued K-25 and my guess is that re-spoolers like John Schwind are selling off their existing inventory. This means there are only three films available for R8:
<ul type="square">[*]Cine-X, a B&W reversal, the same emulsion as Super8 Tri-X[*]CineColor, a color reversal, the same emulsion as Super8 Ectachrome 125[*]Fomapan - a B&W film made in eastern Europe[/list]<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Also, since R8 is 16mm film with extra sprocket holes, it seems the potential for more film stocks (incl. negative) is there.
</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>
An interesting possibility that I have given some thought to myself. I don't think Kodak would be interested. You might possibly be able to re-perf the film yourself. You'd have to get a machinist to help you design and build a re-perfing device whose operation would certainly have to be automatic. Also, when you sent it to a lab you'd want to be sure they knew what the stuff was so they'd use the right chemistry.

[rollemfilm]

there are many super 8 cameras that can do sync. take a look at the Film Groups listing. besides that, many super 8 cameras can do wild sync. i don't find spring wind cameras a problem. i use them all the time. just stating the facts here.

[yell-o_matter_custard]

Bolex H8

Bolex P1

Bell & Howell 414

CINECHROME 25

Regular 8 Rocks!!!

[wahiba]

Home movie making is now an esoteric hobby offering challenges that video cannot offer. A bit like climbing a mountain on foot when in many places you could take the train.

Because of this it will increase in popularity. We want all the mod cons in our working lives, and general living, but when it comes to hobbies, that is different.

Super-8 uses special cartridges and the reloadable variety exist, but are difficult to source. 16mm can be re-perforated, but currently no one seems to be offering this service. At one time even Ilford sold regular-8 in 100 feet lengths, and no doubt would again if enough were ordered.

So unless you are one of the minority who uses super-8 commercially, then it is horses for courses. As cameras of all sorts are relatively cheap and readily available, as are dual gauge projectors, the best bet is to try both.

Of course, there is 9.5mm, but that is another story.